A timeline for events relating to Harrowdown Hill
TIMELINE for events on Friday 18.7.03 (Harrowdown Hill related)
Hutton Inquiry evidence is in RED FOI evidence is in BLUE
05.07 Sunrise for Oxford on 18/7/03
05.00 (soon after) Paul Chapman gets initial page
Unspecified time Paul Chapman says: 'Further text message to say we had a call out'
05.15 ACC Page starts his meeting about Dr Kelly's disappearance & the search
06.00 DC Coe called out
06.00 (about) PC Sawyer called out
06.15 PC Franklin called out
07.15 to 07.30 Louise Holmes arrives Abingdon Police Station
08.00 (about) Paul Chapman, Louise Holmes and Brock start search
08.00 (about) PC Franklin, PC Sawyer and others briefed by Sgt Woods
08.45 (about, estimated) Brock finds boat people
09.20 Paul Chapman makes 999 call
09.28 Outer cordon established
09.30 Closing time “Operation Mason”
09.40 Ambulance gets call out
09.55 Ambulance arrives at Harrowdown Hill (Dave Bartlett evidence)
Hutton Inquiry evidence is in RED FOI evidence is in BLUE
05.07 Sunrise for Oxford on 18/7/03
05.00 (soon after) Paul Chapman gets initial page
Unspecified time Paul Chapman says: 'Further text message to say we had a call out'
05.15 ACC Page starts his meeting about Dr Kelly's disappearance & the search
06.00 DC Coe called out
06.00 (about) PC Sawyer called out
06.15 PC Franklin called out
07.15 to 07.30 Louise Holmes arrives Abingdon Police Station
08.00 (about) Paul Chapman, Louise Holmes and Brock start search
08.00 (about) PC Franklin, PC Sawyer and others briefed by Sgt Woods
08.45 (about, estimated) Brock finds boat people
09.20 Paul Chapman makes 999 call
09.28 Outer cordon established
09.30 Closing time “Operation Mason”
09.40 Ambulance gets call out
09.55 Ambulance arrives at Harrowdown Hill (Dave Bartlett evidence)
10.01 Paul Chapman logged out of outer cordon
10.07 Ambulance crew declare life extinct (PC Franklin & DC Coe evidence)
10.07 Ambulance crew declare life extinct (PC Franklin & DC Coe evidence)
10.25 Helicopter takes off to go to Harrowdown Hill
12.04 Dr Hunt logged into inner cordon (From his published report)
12.06 DCI Young logged into outer cordon
12.35 Death confirmed by Dr Hunt
12.50 PC Franklin gets request from DCI Young to do fingertip search
* "Just before 2 p.m., police say they believe the body is that of Kelly."
14.10 Dr Hunt (with Mr Green) logged into inner cordon (from his published report)
16.45 First fingertip search completed
17.30 Dr Hunt's tapings and swabs completed (from his published report)
19.00 Mr Green finishes at HH and notes the hearse approaching
19.15 Dr Hunt takes DK's rectal temperature (from his report)
19.19 Dr Hunt logged out of inner cordon (from his report)
19.35 Dr Hunt logged out of outer cordon (from his report)
19.24 Second fingertip search started (in area of removed body)
19.45 Second fingertip search completed
I hope that the above timeline is helpful
UPDATE: *The two timings starred have been added from a timeline here http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/10/14/156637/-Plame,-Miller,-Kelly,-WMD-Timeline
(Many thanks to Felix who pointed out this link to me in a comment on another post)
10.26 Ambulance crew logged out of outer cordon
10.26 to 11.26 approx Communication blackout ordered at HH (Dave Bartlett information)
10.35 Helicopter on scene at Harrowdown Hill to take photographs
10.55 Helicopter lands
11.00 Helicopter takes off and departs for next task
* "At 11 a.m., police hunting for Kelly say the body of an unidentified man has been found at Harrowdown Hill, five miles from Dr Kelly's home."
12.00 Dr Hunt logged into outer cordon (From his published report)* "At 11 a.m., police hunting for Kelly say the body of an unidentified man has been found at Harrowdown Hill, five miles from Dr Kelly's home."
12.04 Dr Hunt logged into inner cordon (From his published report)
12.06 DCI Young logged into outer cordon
12.35 Death confirmed by Dr Hunt
12.50 PC Franklin gets request from DCI Young to do fingertip search
* "Just before 2 p.m., police say they believe the body is that of Kelly."
14.10 Dr Hunt (with Mr Green) logged into inner cordon (from his published report)
16.45 First fingertip search completed
17.30 Dr Hunt's tapings and swabs completed (from his published report)
19.00 Mr Green finishes at HH and notes the hearse approaching
19.15 Dr Hunt takes DK's rectal temperature (from his report)
19.19 Dr Hunt logged out of inner cordon (from his report)
19.35 Dr Hunt logged out of outer cordon (from his report)
19.24 Second fingertip search started (in area of removed body)
19.45 Second fingertip search completed
I hope that the above timeline is helpful
UPDATE: *The two timings starred have been added from a timeline here http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/10/14/156637/-Plame,-Miller,-Kelly,-WMD-Timeline
(Many thanks to Felix who pointed out this link to me in a comment on another post)
Timelines are very useful in helping someone understand the sequence of events even when some witnesses don’t tell the truth.
ReplyDeleteWhat I don’t understand about the timeline of when the police attend the scene is that the police lie but I can’t see the motive in their lies.
Paul Chapman said he and Louise Holmes bumped into DC Coe and Colleagues within 2 -3 minutes of the phone call informing the police that they had found a body (9.20)
Coe says he and his colleague(s) were alone at the scene for 25 -30 mins before Franklin and Sawyer turn up. This appears to be substantiated by Franklin and Sawyer when they said they arrived at the car park at the same time as the ambulance crew (9.55)
Sawyer told the Hutton inquiry that he and Franklin had met Paul Chapman whilst they were walking from the car park up to Harrowdown Hill, Chapman is booked out of the outer cordon at 10.01.
Why did Franklin and Sawyer tell the Hutton inquiry that they arrived at the car park at 9.55 with the ambulance crew when they actually arrived before 9.28 when the outer cordon was set up?
The likely sequence of events is
9.20 SEBEV phone in find
C 9.23 SEBEV bump into Coe
9.28 Outer cordon set up, Franklin and Sawyer walk up to Harrowdown Hill meeting Paul Chapman coming down, then meeting with Coe & Co at the woods. They then return to their vehicle to get some aluminium poles and tape.
9.55 Ambulance arrives, V Hunt and Bartlett meet Franklin and Sawyer and they go up the path to the woods together.
Can anyone think of a good reason why the Hutton inquiry was mislead about the time Sawyer and Franklin first attended the scene?
Why was the initial brief encounter between PC’s Franklin & Sawyer and Coe and Co covered up?
Did Franklin & Sawyer deliver something / take something away from the scene on their first visit?
ReplyDeleteI think I might have the answer to my question.
ReplyDeleteThe AA route planner has a journey from Abingdon police station to the Blue Boar in Longworth as 18 minutes.
So for Franklin and Sawyer to establish the outer cordon by 9.28 then they needed to set off in their landrover by 9.10 possibly a little earlier due to rush hour / school run.
But the report of the body being found isn't made until 9.20.
Are Sawyer and Franklin in a race with Coe & Co to get to the body before SEBEV and reposition it?
LL, one thing is for sure and that is if someone is telling lies there has to be good reason for it! Finding the reason is the problem.
ReplyDeleteThere are discrepancies between the testimonies of PCs Franklin and Sawyer of sufficient significance to make me believe that they were party to a cover up. Sawyer I think was the more confident of the two in giving evidence but difficult for both as they couldn't be sure exactly how the questions would be put.
Sawyer says the briefing was for 8 o'clock. I would be surprised if they were still in the police station 1 hour and 20 minutes later. Sawyer reckons the call re the body find was at about 9 am which would make the 9.28 cordon set up seem OK.
My hunch is that it was deemed essential for the body to be found by a civilian team but that they needed to seal up the site ASAP. Did they really need to get in these search specialists from Windsor to start the search (according to Franklin a good hours drive away from Abingdon).
It's interesting that by the time Franklin and Sawyer go into their briefing the volunteer searchers are getting out of their car at the approach to Harrowdown Hill!
LL, I hadn't read your last comment before posting mine!
ReplyDeleteIf we take Sawyer's belief of the "body found" call being at 9 o'clock then 9.28 works (assuming that it is the three police officers they bring who first set up the cordon)
This then suggests that ACC Page is setting up a scenario of a call NOT from Paul Chapman!
Brian
ReplyDeleteIf you assume Coe & co had not gone native and had actually been ordered to Harrowdown Hill, then IF the 9.20 "body found" call made by Paul Chapman is an accurate account then there were various police units converging on HH before SEBEV phoned in their find.
Coe & Coe, Franklin, Sawyer & Cordons and Sgt Dadd (who he? what's he doing?) The only peron whose not there is DCI Young, the senior investigating officer at the scene.
But the important point here is that there is substantial evidence that the police were aware of the location of the body before the call came in.
Evidence of cover up? Yes! But will the Attorney General act on it? No!
LL, these aspects being discussed in the comments are, I agree, not things that the AG will act on. But there is plenty of other stuff as you know that he could and should be acting on!
ReplyDeleteFrom the evidence of the ambulance crew at the Inquiry and in comment to the press subsequently it is clear that there were a lot of both police and police vehicles on scene when they arrive at 9.55. Franklin and Sawyer pass no comment about this but are surprised to see DC Coe.
Louise Holmes states that she gets back to her car (sometime ahead of Paul Chapman presumably) and then further police officers and personnel take over. Logically she was back at the car before the ambulance crew arrive and it seems that there was a substantial police presence there already.
Brian,
ReplyDeleteI was wondering what was occupying Nicholas Hunt's time from 17.30 to 19.15.
Perhaps it should be "obvious" but it's not obvious to me at the moment.
LL & Brian,
ReplyDeleteIn addition to "lies" I think you may need to take into account "fuzziness", genuine mistakes and false assumptions.
For example, you seem to assume that you know who formed the initial outer cordon at 09.28. I suggest that we don't "know" that. The assumption may be right or wrong.
If, hypothetically, the initial outer cordon was formed of DC Shields and/or "Harry Lime" then the seeming events would take on a different shape, wouldn't it?
Andrew, what I suspect Dr Hunt is preparing for is taking a rectal temperature which points to a wide death period commensuate with the ridiculous lonely suicide narrative. How this is achieved one can only speculate. A 12.30pm rectal temerature might possibly have given completely the wrong time of death . Perhaps Dr Hunt was banished to the large white tent for an hour or two. There are redacted names at the post mortem, there will obviously be people present at the hill who do not appear in any testimony.
ReplyDeleteAndrew
ReplyDeleteYes my assumption is the 9.28 cordon was formed by the officers that travelled with Franklin and Sawyer. But you are right to question that assumption on two levels 1) the time may have been made up to fit in with how things should appear and 2) The cordon was established by other officers, I don't accept it could have been Coe & co but it could have been set up by a team from Dr Kelly's home in Southmoor, that would make more sense time wise.
The interview in the Daily Mail 12 Sept 2010 Dave Bartlett describes the scene when he got there
"As they arrived they found the area swarming with police – some in blue combats and others in plain clothes. ‘You could tell immediately it was something high profile,’ he said.
They were met at the scene by Sergeant Alan Dadd and several other officers.
He led them up a bridle path towards the woods, as they carried heavy oxygen cylinders and the equipment needed to treat cardiac arrest."
This is quite different to Sawyer's account of the scene when he arrived
And where did you then go?
A. We then went to the track that leads up to Harrowdown Hill, I do not know the name of the track, but when we arrived we saw a vehicle parked which belonged to Louise. We started walking up the track. We also had with us two paramedics who had arrived, which we took up with us to make sure that the person we were going to see did not require any medical assistance.
Q. Those two paramedics had obviously arrived separately from you?
A. They had arrived more or less at the same time we did. So the five of us went up because we were with Sergeant Alan Dadd as well."
Had Sgt Dadd got to the scene before Franklin and Sawyer and set up the outer cordon? If so where had he come from? Did he arrive with Coe & co?
Also why the delay in calling an ambulance?
So many questions!
Felix
ReplyDeleteQuite! The people that attendended Dr Hunt's Post Mortem extravagansa reads something like the guest list from a Secret Policeman's Ball.
Perhaps that's where they got so many of their facts from
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnxXkjD6VmE
This is interesting, a Search co-ordinator for Thames Valley Police Superintendent Alan Dadd spoke regarding a missing woman in July 2002
ReplyDeletehttp://www.banburyguardian.co.uk/news/local/fears_grow_for_missing_mandy_1_590146
Same guy? Correct rank/
LL
ReplyDeleteI think the rank might have been misquoted: here Alan Dadd is a Sergeant above PC Franklin in November 2002
Felix
ReplyDeleteI think you're right
Either that or he did something bad between July and November
But it's interesting that Dadd, Franklin and Sawyer are all members of TVP's Protection Group.
LancashireLad,
ReplyDeleteInteresting that you quote the missing person case that Alan Dadd was involved in 2002.
I was a witness in that case.
Thames Valley Police organised a search for a woman missing from Banbury in Oxfordshire.
The woman was insulin dependent, suffering from clinical depression and had a history of mental illness.
TVP launched a search for her the day after she went missing.....by which time she was most probably dead anyway!
They failed to find her despite searching within a few yards of where we found the poor woman’s decaying body several weeks later.
Thames Valley Police's search efforts were like something from the ‘Keystone Cops’.
At the Inquest that followed the police officer in charge came over as very arrogant. There was little compassion shown for the father of the dead woman. The inquest was very thorough and very distressing for her elderly relatives but they didn't get the option to give evidence from behind screens like members of the Kelly family.
Frank
Frank
ReplyDeleteI'm fascinated to read that you have first hand experience of being a witness at an inquest and that you saw for yourself how TVP operated. Presumably all witnesses were in the same room and so were party to what each one said in evidence.
Brian,
ReplyDeleteYes, the inquest was open to the public, it was held in a large room at the local town hall, all people who spoke did so under oath and were subjected to cross examination where appropriate. The coroner was very thorough and totally impartial. The whole affair was conducted in a way that left one feeling that justice had been done. The most important distinction between this inquest and the Hutton inquiry was the way in which no attempts were made to shield the family in any way. There were some very 'unsavoury' comments and accusations about the lifestyle of the deceased woman and her elderly father was clearly distressed by such remarks but he had to sit there and listen. He was not afforded the luxury of giving evidence from behind a screen or via a video camera.
And as I have said the search conducted by TVP was in this case little more than a joke.
Frank
09.28 Outer cordon established
ReplyDeleteCould someone please tell me where this comes from?
Thanks in advance.
Anonymous, the 9.28 time was supplied by Thames Valley police in response to a Freedom of Information request.
ReplyDeleteThere are too many police freemasons in the mixing pot
ReplyDelete